The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

Today's episode is about learning to sit with uncertainty. The episode opens with a discussion of listener questions on how to handle risk, the ingredients of a great apology, and why people stay loyal to relationships and organizations that quietly drain them. Then Brené and Adam turn to uncertainty – how our brains are wired for a threat response, what intolerance of uncertainty actually is, and why it can drive people toward authoritarian leaders.   You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). 0:00 - Introduction and Guest Questions 3:20 - Is Risk Something to Review or Reveal 13:40 - Why do People Stay Loyal to Bad Relationships? 22:28 - Strategies for Apologizing and Repair 32:33 - Is Uncertainty a Strength or Deficit for Leaders? 40:15 - Intolerance for Uncertainty 52:00 - Terror Management Theory and our Response to Uncertainty 59:50 - How Can We Manage Uncertainty 1:05:00 - Closing Show Notes: Capabilities, Cognition and Inertia: Evidence from Digital Imaging - Tripsas and Gavetti, 2000, Harvard Business School (Polaroid Study) The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth - Amy Edmondson, 2019, Book Is it Safe to Speak Up at Work? - Adam Grant and Amy Edmonson, July 2021, Worklife with Adam Grant Podcast Anchored, Aligned, Accountable: A Framework for Transcending Bullsh*t and Transforming Our Lives and Work (Foreword by Brené Brown) - Aiko Bethea, 2026, Book Predicting Exit Voice Loyalty and Neglect - Withey and Cooper, 1989, Administrative Science Quarterly Exit, Voice, and Loyalty: Responses to Decline in Firms, Organizations, and States -  Albert Hirschman,1970, Book The Decision Lab: System Justification Theory The Secrets of a Great Apology - Adam Grant and Beth Polin, 2025, WorkLife with Adam Grant Podcast The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships - Harriet Lerner, 2025, Book I’m Sorry: How to Apologize and Why It Matters, Part 1 of 2 - Brené Brown and Harriet Lerner, 2020, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown Podcast Conclave - Robert Harris, 2016, Book A Comprehensive Analysis of COVID-19 Misinformation, Public Health Impacts, and Communication Strategies: Scoping Review - Kisa, 2024, Journal of Medical Internet Research   Into the Unknown: A Review and Synthesis of Contemporary Models Involving Uncertainty - Carleton, 2016, Journal of Anxiety Disorders Conceptual Models of Generalized Anxiety Disorder - Fisher and Wells, 2011, Psychiatric Annals  The Other Side of Change: Who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans - Maya Shankar, 2026, Book   Aftereffects of Stress on Human Performance and Social Behavior: A Review of Research and Theory - Cohen (Includes the work of Glass and Singer), 1980, Carnegie Mellon Research University Hofstede's Cultural Dimensions on Uncertainty Avoidance Compensatory Conviction in the Face of Personal Uncertainty: Going to Extremes and Being Oneself - Mcgregor et al., 2001, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Are Needs to Manage Uncertainty and Threat Associated With Political Conservatism or Ideological Extremity? - Jost et al, 2007, Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin The Causes and Consequences of a Need For Self-esteem: A Terror Management Theory - Greenberg, Pyszczynski, & Solomon, 1986, Book chapter Foolproof: Why We Fall for Misinformation and How to Build Immuninity - Sander van der Linden, 2023, Book Utterly Humbled by Mystery - Richard Rohr, 2006, NPR Morning Edition Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when your confidence outruns your competence? Brené and Adam start with freestyle skiing champ Eileen Gu’s extraordinary Olympic press conference and use it to explore metacognition—how to notice your thinking, question it, and change it on purpose. They dig into the Dunning–Kruger effect, calibration, journaling, and feedback, discuss why we’re so bad at estimating timelines, and consider how “I’ve got this” energy can quietly wreck projects, relationships, and learning. From pickleball and ping pong to therapy and team meetings, this episode is about building the inner game of better thinking without losing your nerve along the way. You can find the Curiosity Shop on YouTube⁠ and Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). Chapters: 0:00 - Introductions 3:45 - Eileen Gu’s Metacognition   12:22 - What is Metacognition?  25:10 - What is Dunning-Kruger? 38:14 - Time Estimation and The Planning Fallacy  44:36 - Metacognition and Dunning-Kruger Final Thoughts  58:17 - Wrap up Shownotes: I hate minimalism - Hank Green, TikTok Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Book  Metacognition and Cognitive Monitoring: A New Area of Cognitive-Developmental Inquiry - Flavell, 1979 Explaining the Dunning-Kruger effect and overcoming overconfidence with David Dunning - Adam Grant, 2024, Worklife with Adam Grant Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know - Adam Grant, 2021, Book Intuitive Prediction: Biases and Corrective Procedures - Kahneman & Tversky, 1979, Office of Naval Research Daniel Kahneman Doesn't Trust Your Intuition - Adam Grant, 2023,  Re:Thinking with Adam Grant  The Story Rumble Process: A Guide for Groups and Teams - Brené Brown, Dare to Lead, 2018 The learning benefits of teaching: A retrieval practice hypothesis - Koh, 2018 Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things - Adam Grant, 2023, Book Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments - Kruger & Dunning, 1999, Cornell University The Inner Game of Tennis - The Classic Guide to the Mental Side of Peak Performance - Timothy Gallwey, 1974, Book Charlotte Harpur and Eileen Gu, Final Press Conference, 2026 Winter Olympics, Milano, Italy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, Brené and Adam are live at SXSW! They explore why so many people are vulnerable to narcissistic leaders. The conversation covers the conditions that breed narcissistic leadership, the roles of shame and fear, and how to survive a narcissistic boss, and what it means to lead with mission over ego. You can find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop). Chapters: 0:00 - Introduction 3:14 - Why People Are Vulnerable to Narcissistic Leaders 12:21 - Shame-Based Fear 18:04 - Do We Think About Emotions Wrong? 19:21 - Undue Credit and the Narcissistic Leader 26:00 - Mission Over Ego 29:52 - How to Manage a Narcissistic Boss 39:18 - Anxiety as a Path to Narcissism 47:45 - Judging Impairs Judgement 1:02:20 - Closing Show Notes: Adam Grant, Why We Fall for Narcissistic Leaders, Starting in Grade School, NYT 2025. O'Reilly et al. 2001 When 'Me' Trumps 'We': Narcissistic Leaders and the Cultures They Create, 2021. Brené Brown, "Shame shields" in The Dare to Lead Glossary: Key Language skills, tools, and practices. (pg. 15-16) Bagozzi et al. 2003 (A study on cross-cultural differences in reaction to shame) Brené Brown, Dan Pink on The Power of Regret, Dare to Lead, 2022 We're The Millers (Trailer) 2013, Awkward Roadtrip Moments: No Ragrets George Saunders, "Failures of Kindness", Convocation Speech, 2013 Emily Grijalva et al. 2020 (A study of the impact of narcissim on NBA team performance) How Brené Brown and Lumen CEO Kate Johnson Sparked This Telecom Comeback, WSJ Leadership Institute, 2025 (11:25) Adam Grant, Unless You're Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You're Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown LinkedIn 2016 Watts et al, 2014 (A study of grandiose narcissism and vulnerable narcissism in U.S. Presidents) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brené and Adam have a bracingly honest conversation about what could go wrong in their collaboration, and how to set new teams, partnerships, and friendships up for success. They discuss the science of avoiding failure and building alignment, and practical strategies for navigating differences—including their own clashing instincts around minimalism vs. maximalism and sarcasm vs. trashtalk. The episode closes with what each of them is listening to, watching, and reading right now. You can also find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop). Chapters: 00:00 - How Brené Inadvertently Launched Adam into Podcasting 02:57 - Interpreting Sarcasm  16:08 - How to Prevent Failure 28:57 - How Could This Partnership Could Go Wrong 38:42 - Learning From Differences 52:05 - How to Align Teams   1:02:00 - Closing Questions Show Notes: Brené and Adam on What They Will Never Agree On - The Curiosity Shop Episode 1 Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT Op-Ed My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown 2016 LinkedIn How to Love Criticism - Adam Grant 2018 WorkLife with Adam Grant Adam Grant on The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know - Brené Brown and Adam Grant 2021 Dare To Lead Podcast Brené Brown on What Vulnerability Isn’t - Adam Grant and Brené Brown 2023 Re: Thinking Ted Audio Collective Hypervigilance in Mary Poppins (1964) The art and science of trash talk with Rafi Kohan - Adam Grant 2024 Work Life With Adam Grant Performing a Project Premortem - Gary Klein 2007 HBR Evaluating the Effectiveness of the PreMortem Technique on Plan Confidence - Veinot, Klein, & Wiggins 2010 ISCRAM Conference The Economics of Gender Differences in Employment Outcomes in Academia - Donna Ginther 2006 National Library of Medicine Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System - Donnella Meadows 1999 The Donella Meadows Project Academy for Systems Change Narcissists: Are We Surrounded? On Science Vs: - Wendy Zukerman 2024 Science VS Podcast Human Raised: Nurturing Connection, Curiosity, & Lifelong Learning in the Age - Dana Suskind, MD 2026 Book The Killing Stones A Detective Jimmy Perez Novel - Ann Cleeves 2025 Book Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Curiosity Shop! In the inaugural episode, Brené and Adam discuss how a public disagreement about authenticity almost ended their relationship before it began. For the first time, they discuss where they went wrong, why they changed their minds about each other, and what they learned about repair and trust. They also explore what healthy authenticity looks like, and dive into the many things they may still never fully see eye to eye on – from email vs. texting to remote work to faith. Show Notes Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT Op-Ed The Fine Line Between Helpful and Harmful Authenticity - Adam Grant 2020 NYT Authenticity Is a Double-Edged Sword -  Adam Grant 2020 WorkLife with Adam Grant Podcast  My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown LinkedIn 2016 The Dangers of Being Authentic - Adam Grant LinkedIn 2016 In Tough Times, Psychological Safety Is a Requirement, Not a Luxury  - Michael Blanding 2025 HBR Jecker & Landy: Liking a person as a function of doing him a favour  - Jecker & Landy 1969 APA PsycNet Adam Grant on The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know  - Brené Brown and Adam Grant 2021 Dare To Lead Podcast Brené Brown on What Vulnerability Isn’t - Adam Grant and Brené Brown 2023 Re: Thinking Ted Audio Collective A Whole New Mind (Right-Brainers will Rule the Future)  - Daniel H. Pink 2005 Book The Neuroscience of You: How Every Brain Is Different and How to Understand Yours  - Chantel Prat 2022 Book Dr. Harriet Lerner on I’m Sorry: How to Apologize and Why It Matters, Part 1 of 2  - Brené Brown and Dr. Harriet Lerner 2020 Unlocking Us Podcast Happy Gilmore Scene - I’m Stupid You’re Smart - Happy Gilmore 1996 Movie Shame and Guilt - June Price Tangney 2002 Book Daniel Kahneman: Doesn't Trust Your Intuition - Adam Grant and Daniel Kahneman 2021 Re:Thinking But yes, Blue Jays are master mimics Sponsor List Thank you to SAS and Canva! Chapters Titles + Timestamps 0:00 - Introduction 3:26 - Our First Disagreement 18:45 - Our Path Here 28:31 - Approach to Repair an Apology 51:02 - Closing Question Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant are partnering on a new weekly podcast grounded in an unflinching commitment to learning and unlearning. At a time when public discourse rewards certainty over inquiry, The Curiosity Shop will see two of the world’s most influential thought leaders make the case for slowing down, asking better questions, and embracing informed complexity over easy answers. Bringing together their left and right brain sensibilities — she’s a qualitative researcher; he’s a quantitative researcher — they will explore some of the defining questions of our time, unpack the research reshaping how we live, lead, and love, and dive deep into the ideas, evidence, and cultural moments intriguing them the most. Tune in for the first episode on Thursday, March 19! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the second part of an Ask Me Anything episode around Strong Ground, Brené shares an excerpt from the Strong Ground audiobook that walks listeners through the one topic that elicited the most questions — the Above/Below the Line practice. This is one of the most profound self-awareness tools we discovered! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part one of an Ask Me Anything episode around Strong Ground, Brené answers questions from listeners about mindset shifts, leading from where you are, and courage and boldness in uncertain times. She highlights the importance of pausing during big decisions where action is not always impact, breaks down how to be courageous when it’s not the popular choice, and emphasizes the role of curiosity and thoughtfulness when moving through uncertainty and overwhelm. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the final episode of a special “Dare to Lead” series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam discuss the problem with rewarding all effort as excellence. Instead, leaders should reward effort that is not leading to success or mastery with their time through coaching, mentoring, and sharing their own experiences of transformation and change. They also explore how to approach decisions based on how consequential and reversible they are and highlight the role that leaders play in setting up others for success by making sure their team has what they need. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the fifth episode of a special “Dare to Lead” series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam break down the skillsets of empathy, empathy misses, and how empathy is trickier than walking in someone else’s shoes. They discuss the way empathy can show up as being curious and caring — irreducible prerequisites for good leadership. Brené shares a powerful sentence for leaders building an empathy skillset: “What does support from me look like right now?” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the fourth episode of a special “Dare to Lead” series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam explore the attack on empathy, the difference between cognitive empathy and affective empathy, and what separates empathy from enmeshment. Brené shares a personal story that led to a breakthrough around how to stay aligned with empathy and perspective taking instead of over-identifying and finding yourself in enmeshment — the feeling of not knowing where you end and someone else begins. They also discuss how living in an image-heavy world can affect the way we engage with empathy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the third part of a special series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam tackle the topics of time scarcity, how a great leader doesn’t have all the right answers, but the right questions, and the difference between pocket presence and executive presence. They dig into how understanding the 5 Cs — color, context, connective tissue, cost, and consequence — of delegation and strategy operations can build the situational awareness, temporal awareness, systems theory, and critical thinking skills necessary for pocket presence. In their discussion, Adam shares his breakthrough of seeing pocket presence as a collective capability, whereas executive presence is “party of one.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part two of a special series with Adam Grant on Brené’s new book, Strong Ground, Brené and Adam discuss the far and near enemies of generosity, the tug of war of paradox, and sports as leadership theater. They explore how finding our strong ground offers tethering, connection, and stability, and also the platform for explosive movement and change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special Dare to Lead episode, Brené shares one of her favorite chapters from the Strong Ground audiobook called Lock-In and Lock-Through Power. Brené uses the metaphor of a boat lock to explore the tricky work-to-home and professional-to-personal transitions that we have to navigate with our partners, children, and friends. She digs into why, at the end of a hard day, when we finally arrive home, we stay in our cars and scroll through TikTok rather than going inside, and how an intentional "locking through" process allows us to rise or lower to a new and different rhythm as we make daily transitions. And, after visiting the Teddington Lock in London and getting a lesson from the local lock keeper, she shares why moving too fast through these transitions often results in relational capsizing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the first episode of a special series on Brené's new book, Strong Ground, Brené and Adam dig into the origins of Strong Ground, and what values clarity can mean for individuals, teams, and organizations. They take on the question of why there is so much more meaning in our lives and our work when we know who we are and what matters to us the most. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode Brené and Barrett discuss their learnings on AI and social media and some of their favorite nuggets from each of the guests in the series. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Brené and Dr. Joy discuss fighting bias in algorithms, Gender Shades - the accuracy of AI powered gender classification products, and her amazing perspective on technology as a poet, artist, and scientist. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Brené and Lisa discuss how we can work to close the digital divide and ensure more people have access to technology, what it means in AI speak to have a human in the loop, and the incredible ways teachers, business owners, and regular people are using AI. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Quantitative futurist Amy Webb talks to us about the three technologies that make up the "super cycle" that we're all living through right now: artificial intelligence, wearable devices, and biotechnology, and why, despite the unnerving change, we still need to do some serious future planning.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Part 2 of my conversation with Paul Leonardi and Tsedal Neeley, authors of The Digital Mindset: What It Really Takes to Thrive in the Age of Data, Algorithms, and AI, we talk about the importance of establishing a baseline digital literacy in our organizations and the intimate relationship between the skill sets and the mindsets we cultivate. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This two-part podcast with Paul Leonardi and Tsedal Neeley is an absolute game changer. Given how often I find myself working with leaders who are knee-high in uncertainty and vulnerability around digital transformation, I thought I had a pretty solid understanding of it. But The Digital Mindset book and this conversation turned everything upside down. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with Part 2 of my conversation with Mike Erwin, the founder and CEO of the Character and Leadership Center and the co-author of Leadership Is a Relationship. In this episode, we continue to dig into how the most effective leaders prioritize relationships. They give feedback that calls attention to the behaviors they want to encourage, invest in the slow work of pulling and keeping people together, and navigate the trickiness of loyalty, a state that, if it starts to move us out of our values, can become transactional, not relational. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the first of two episodes with Mike Erwin, the founder and CEO of the Character and Leadership Center and the co-author of Leadership Is a Relationship, a timely book that details why leaders who prioritize relationships are more effective. It’s a conversation about the seven functions of relationship-building and the importance of prioritizing our relationships as people and also as leaders. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I won’t lie: This conversation was hard as hell. But — I’m so grateful to Lisa Lahey and all the work she and Robert Kegan have done on the “immunity to change” theory. It explains why lasting, meaningful change is damn hard. Rather than simply talking about the process, Lisa and I actually engage in it around something I’m desperate to change (and somewhat refusing to change). She is so skilled at asking questions and framing conversations — this is a MASTER class Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I don’t like to think of myself as someone who’s averse to change. But, man, am I averse to change. Enter the amazing Lisa Lahey. She is a Harvard Graduate School of Education faculty member who has built a body of work to help learners and leaders overcome the innate human aversion to change. And I thought, when I asked her to join us for a two-parter on this podcast, that we’d talk about the “immunity to change” theory — how change happens, why it’s so hard — from an academic perspective. Instead, she walks me through a very personal struggle around something in my life that I’ve desperately wanted to change but just seemingly cannot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Barrett and I invite you into some research thinking and dig into the latest data on how to build brave spaces with our teams — what gets in the way of people showing up, what gets in the way of doing the work, and how judgment is the primary killer of these spaces. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Janice Omadeke is the creator of The Mentor Method, an enterprise software that transforms company culture through mentorship. We talk about her entrepreneurship journey, from building fan sites as a hobby to being named one of Entrepreneur magazine’s 100 Women of Influence in 2022. As The Mentor Method’s founder and CEO, Janice became one of the first 100 Black women in the United States to raise over $1 million in seed funding for a tech start-up, and she is the first Black woman in Austin, Texas, history to have a venture-backed exit. This is the kind of leadership conversation we started this podcast to have, and I consider myself lucky to have met this entrepreneur. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are back with Part 2 with two of my friends, mentors, teachers, and co-creators, Aiko Bethea and Ruchika Tulshyan. Join us as we talk about the state of belonging work — what it is, what’s working, and what’s not working. This is a conversation about the tough work that I believe is at the heart of courageous leadership. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have two Dare to Lead favorites back with us today who are really important people to me in terms of my own personal and professional growth: Aiko Bethea and Ruchika Tulshyan. We are digging into the heart of what it means to belong. What are we getting right with DEIB work? What are we still not doing well? I think this work is actually the core of real leadership, of daring leadership. It’s not an add-on. It’s the heart, it’s the lifeblood, it’s the marrow. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I think y’all know that I’m a fifth-generation Texan, and I have another Texan with me today: Beto O’Rourke. He is running for governor of Texas, and early voting starts next week on October 24th, with Election Day coming up on November 8th. But beyond the timeliness of voting, I wanted to connect on the timeliness of brave leadership — because we really need courageous, real, authentic, empathic leaders right now. So I wanted to have him on the podcast to learn a little bit more about his approach, his vision, and what he wants for us in our state. And, you know, if you’re not in Texas, there’s a saying, “As Texas goes, so goes the nation.” I think you’ll find this interesting. Whether you agree or disagree with Beto’s position on things, I think he’s a strong leader with a different approach — and I love the authenticity. I think you’ll find his story and his vision for politics and life in general compelling. We need to be talking to more and more leaders about what their vision is, what their concerns are, who they are as people. You know, we always say on Dare to Lead, who you are is how you lead, and I think we got a really good picture of that in this conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back for Part 2 of my two-episode conversation with Adam Grant and Simon Sinek. If you haven’t listened to Part 1, I suggest doing that first, because it provides the framework for the three big topics we cover here: (1) quiet quitting — what it is, what it isn’t, what we think about it; (2) engagement — how you define it, how you foster it; and (3) boundaries — not just setting them, but also respecting them. We all come at things from different perspectives and different experiences, but I really consider both of these guys friends and mentors, and I respect and admire their work. I took so many notes — they challenged me to rethink some things, and I’m still processing others. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What’s happening in the workplace right now? In this first of two episodes with Adam Grant and Simon Sinek, we talk about what we are seeing in organizations across the world — and there are definitely some trends that emerge. And so much learning. We talk about disconnects between what we know from data and what we’re seeing practiced. We also talk about what high performers actually look like and the most meaningful way to succeed. Connecting with these two is the regularly scheduled gut check that I need. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with the second part of a two-part series with Erika James, PhD, and Lynn Perry Wooten, PhD, about their new book, The Prepared Leader: Emerge from Any Crisis More Resilient Than Before. In Part 1, we talked about what leaders can do today to prepare for what’s next, and in this episode, we dig into more tactical strategies. I have to say that I have lived this work, and this is real. It is not theoretical. This is about what it means to be human and look for grace and make very tough decisions while leading through a crisis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the first of a two-part series with Erika James, PhD, and Lynn Perry Wooten, PhD, about their new book, The Prepared Leader: Emerge from Any Crisis More Resilient Than Before. It’s completely tactical and has taught me so much about leading in a crisis — and unfortunately, we have not seen our last crisis. We talk about what leaders can do today to prepare for what’s next, as they add a fourth “p” to the triple bottom line framework (people, planet, and profit) for measuring a business’s performance — and that’s “preparedness.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Three weeks ago, our whole company gathered together in our offices for the first time since early March 2020. In this episode, Barrett and I reflect on how it felt to be together, what surprised us, what shifted for us, and what we’ve learned so far as our team has begun to work in the same space again for the first time in more than two years. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Kam Franklin, singer-songwriter, music producer, activist, writer, and lead singer of the Gulf Coast soul band The Suffers. You know their kick-ass song “Take Me to the Good Times” from the Dare to Lead podcast. Kam and I talk about what it means to lead a creative team and what it means to set audacious goals, to fall and fail, and the power of getting back up. Kam explains the daily conflict that bubbles up in the creative process and how normalizing that conflict helps us get to the creative magic. The joy, the expansiveness, and the soul of The Suffers are inextricably connected to the inclusivity, representation, and diversity of the band. Kam seems to never forget that joy as she leads, and it comes through in this conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you come across Ruchika Tulshyan’s new book and find yourself dismissively thinking, “Another DEI book?” you do so at your own peril — and privilege. Inclusion on Purpose: An Intersectional Approach to Creating a Culture of Belonging at Work is a transformative book. In it, Ruchika, a journalist and inclusion strategist, centers the experience of women of color and provides a framework of intentional actions — on both the individual and the organizational level — to neutralize workplace bias and foster environments that are diverse, equitable, and inclusive. As Ruchika says in her book, inclusion is the most important leadership trait today — and one that can be learned through awareness, intention, and regular practice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am talking to Dr. Linda Hill, a researcher, professor of business administration, and chair of the Leadership Initiative at Harvard Business School. She is regarded as one of the top experts on leadership and innovation, and she has done a new study on how to lead in the digital era. We talk about her findings and what leaders are wrestling with today, the qualities of a digitally mature organization, and why digital transformation is less about technology and more about people. We also talk about leading for innovation rather than leading for change. Our organization is definitely experiencing so much of this transformation, and this conversation was so clarifying as we move forward and lead with purpose. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Scott Sonenshein, a researcher, organizational psychologist, and New York Times bestselling author, about the pandemic, the racial reckoning, and work — specifically, what it means for people going to the office for the first time, or staying hybrid, or working from home. We will never be the same again after what we’ve experienced over the past couple of years, and it’s time we talk about how we’re going to rebuild moving forward. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Barrett and I have not been able to stop thinking — and talking — about an episode we did a few weeks ago with Donald Sull and Charlie Sull of CultureX: “How Toxic Work Cultures Are Driving the Great Resignation.” In that episode, we took a deep dive into an MIT Sloan Management Review article the Sulls had recently written, about what was driving the Great Resignation. In sharing their findings, they also gave us a sneak peek at a second article they had in the works, about the attributes of a toxic culture. That article has now been published, so in this episode, Barrett and I are digging into the research and talking about the five attributes of a toxic culture. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is a conversation about how a simple act of generosity can put someone on a new, groundbreaking course. I’m talking with James Rhee — acclaimed impact leader, entrepreneur, educator, investor, and goodwill strategist — about why kindness matters. He leads with a powerful combination of kindness and math and demonstrates how revenue doesn’t define our lives. We unpack the power of goodwill — which is actually an accounting term — and how it affects many other things that we need to be thinking about. He also shares a number of tools, lenses, and music we should be considering as we define what success looks like for us and our organizations. This conversation was an infusion of hope and possibility for me about the power of what we can be. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I want you to pay attention and direct your flashlight right on this podcast — you’ll understand what that means after you listen to this episode. I’m talking to Dr. Amishi Jha, a neuroscientist and the author of the bestseller Peak Mind, about attention, focus, concentration, and mindfulness — specifically how mindfulness can literally change our levels of attention. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Dr. Donald Sull and Charlie Sull about an article I came across in the MIT Sloan Management Review titled “Toxic Culture Is Driving the Great Resignation.” As we know, between April and September of 2021, more than 24 million American employees left their jobs, an all-time record. Donald and Charlie researched what’s driving the Great Resignation. It is both revealing and confirming to hear how their research connects with the work that we do with Dare to Lead, and it is exactly what we’re seeing in companies all over the world. We dig deep into the definition of toxic culture, how it shows up, and what it costs individuals and companies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking to Megan Reitz, a professor of leadership and dialogue, and John Higgins, a researcher and author, about an article they published in the MIT Sloan Management Review titled “Leading in an Age of Employee Activism.” It’s a huge topic in every organization I talk to, and I can say, as an employer and an activist — leading a team filled with organizers and activists — that this is definitely an important issue. We talk about what it takes to make a difference, to do the internal work, and to give leaders the skills to lead with advocacy in the modern workplace. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Debbie Millman — designer, author, educator, curator, brand strategist, and host of the long-running, multi-award-winning podcast Design Matters — about her new book, Why Design Matters: Conversations with the World’s Most Creative People. It’s a conversation about creativity with one of the most creative people in the business, where she answers a lot of direct questions like, What is good design? What are the politics of curation and how is it different from discernment? What gets in the way of a creative life? We also, of course, talk about shame and worthiness, and some of her answers are just incredible. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dan Pink is one of my favorite researchers and writers. In this episode, we dig into one of my least favorite feelings (but one of my best teachers): regret. In his new book, The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward, Dan shares findings from two large studies on regret. It’s fascinating. One big takeaway: We have more regrets about the things we did NOT do than the things we did do. Both Dan and regret are great teachers — you’ll be glad you listened Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back! It’s 2022, and we’re all talking about “returning to the office” at some point. There are a lot of unknowns, and it’s going to be awkward. In this episode, Barrett and I discuss how our organization is going to gather again, as well as what we are seeing in companies across the country. We talk through a few of the toughest questions, debunk some “remote working” myths, and discuss what we’ve learned over the past two years. We’re calling the return to the workplace the Great Awkward — it’s going to be weird and, at times, full-on cringey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My conversation with America Ferrera was so good that I didn’t want it to end, so here we are with the second episode with the renowned actor, director, producer, activist, and leader. We continued our discussion about the importance of integration and how transformative it can be to bring all of our identities to our leadership journey — and in the process, the conversation goes where really neither of us expected it to go. You’ll also hear that the rapid-fire questions were not so rapid, but they are deep, burning, and fire! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with America Ferrera — actor, director, producer, activist, and leader — in the first of a two-part series about leading with your whole self. I have done a lot of work with integration and leadership over the past decades, and I hadn’t heard it so clearly captured and explained as America did in this episode. Every transformational leader I’ve ever worked with refuses to compartmentalize who they are, and America has profoundly, publicly, and professionally integrated her identity into her process and her presence to create real change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. Laurie Santos is a professor of psychology and the head of Silliman Residential College at Yale University and the host of the popular podcast The Happiness Lab. We talk about her experiences with university students and how it connects with the research that I’ve done for my new book, Atlas of the Heart. We discuss how that data predicts what we can expect when we return to the workplace, as well as evidence-based strategies for how we can use this moment to create and cultivate meaningful connection at work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s Part 2 of our two-part episode with James Clear, author of Atomic Habits, which has sold more than 5 million copies worldwide and been translated into more than 50 languages. In Part 1 of our series, we talked about building systems to create habits, and in this episode, we talk about how and why habits are atomic and how to build a habit or break a habit. We also look at our environments and how we can tweak them to support the habits we want to have, and then dive in and talk about organization habits and how we create habits in teams and in organizations. I took multiple pages of notes on this memorable conversation on forming habits that last. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Even before James Clear and I met, I knew this would be a two-part series. I just had so many questions for the author of Atomic Habits, which has sold more than 5 million copies worldwide and been translated into more than 50 languages. Not surprisingly, this turned out to be exactly the type of conversation I’d anticipated. In Part 1 of our series, we talk specifically about developing identity-based habits and how we can become the architects of those habits, not the victims of them. We also talk about the intersection of his work and mine, the collective stories we make up, and how our mindsets and our systems can set us up for success. It was so meaningful to finally meet James, to hear his story, and to take in his insights into how he developed such a deep understanding of the importance of consistency over intensity when it comes to forming habits that last. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am talking with Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist who served as chair of the Social and Behavioral Science Team during the Obama administration and served as the first behavioral science adviser to the United Nations. We talk about what happens when change knocks us off our charted path. How do we get back up? How do we figure out who we are without that path? And how do we start building a new way to walk through the world? We connect on all of these questions and more in this meaningful conversation about the science behind change, how change affects our identities, and what it means for the way we live, love, and lead. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Barrett is back to talk more about trust and how we approach it at our company. We call it BRAVING trust — BRAVING is the acronym we use for the seven attributes of trust. And in Part 2 of this two-part series, we really dig into the core elements of BRAVING: boundaries, reliability, accountability, vault, integrity, nonjudgment, and generosity. We talk frankly about awareness, experiences, and hacks that we have found to be helpful in cultivating trust, and we get really personal about how all of these BRAVING elements show up in our own lives and leadership. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Barrett Guillen, chief of staff at Brené Brown Education and Research Group, is joining me to talk about trust, what trust means, and how we approach it at our company. We call it BRAVING trust — BRAVING is the acronym we use for the seven attributes of trust. We have shared this with organizations all over the world, and today, we’re going to dig into what we’ve learned about practicing BRAVING trust, what we’ve learned from teaching it, and what we’ve learned from the barriers that we often see in our training and in our practice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Liz Wiseman is an author, a researcher, and an executive adviser, and we are talking about her new book, Impact Players: How to Take the Lead, Play Bigger, and Multiply Your Impact. Liz has done research across organizations around the world, talking to managers about what impact players look like, what sets them apart, and how they contribute. With this research, she gives us language to recognize the attributes of an impact player and to grow those characteristics in our own lives to make our work and our impact more fulfilling. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Jodi-Ann Burey and Ruchika Tulshyan about imposter syndrome and the articles they have written together on the topic, including “Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome,” which is among the Harvard Business Review’s top 100 most-read articles in history. We talk about the contexts in which imposter syndrome was originally defined, as well as how it continues to be defined and experienced. We also talk about the problematic myths, required masks, and systemic mindsets connected with the term and how they directly work against creating a culture of belonging. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Charles Feltman is the author of The Thin Book of Trust: An Essential Primer for Building Trust at Work, which is based on his nearly three decades of work with individuals and teams to build, maintain, and restore trust. I have used his definitions of trust and distrust in every book I’ve written, because they are practical and actionable and, at the same time, deep and meaningful. It was important to me to dig into these definitions and explore how they play out at work, in relationships, and in our everyday lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is the second of a two-part series on feedback, and Barrett is back to take it to the next level and dig into engaged feedback with me. As you know, Barrett is chief of staff for Brené Brown Education and Research Group and one of my sisters, and together, we go through the 11 elements of the Engaged Feedback Checklist. It’s a practical tool, and we talk about the real and tangible ways it’s changed how we approach giving feedback and leading tough conversations. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is the first of a two-part series on feedback, and I’m talking with my sister Barrett Guillen, chief of staff for Brené Brown Education and Research Group, about professional feedback. We get very honest about the feedback that we have received over the years, as well as how it felt, what we’ve tried to do about it, where we slip up, and where we’ve made strides. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking to Dr. Amy Cuddy, social psychologist, bestselling author, award-winning Harvard lecturer, and expert on the behavioral science of power, presence, and prejudice. We discuss her recently published Washington Post article, “Why This Stage of the Pandemic Makes Us So Anxious,” and how working through this collective, constant pandemic flux affects us as individuals and as leaders. We also talk about developing a flux mindset and how important it is to facilitate a sense of agency as we make decisions about how we return to work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As I’m writing a book and thinking about habits that are getting in my way of being more productive, I call upon Charles Duhigg, who is a New York Times bestselling author on habits and productivity with The Power of Habit and Smarter Faster Better: The Secrets of Being Productive in Life and Business. We talk about how we are in an interesting time to think big picture about what we’re doing well and what we’d like to work on and what he believes is the “greatest productivity app” that we can all access for free. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is the second of a two-part series with Priya Parker, master facilitator, strategic adviser, and the author of The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters. We hold a weekly meeting in our organization that doesn’t seem to be serving everyone in a consistent way, so Priya helps me figure out what’s going on and why. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join me for Part 1 of a two-part series with Priya Parker on gathering together again. Priya is a master facilitator, a strategic adviser, and the author of The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters. We talk about the big and small challenges we’ll see when we return to workspaces, the need we’ll have to use our creativity and ingenuity to figure out how to be together, and the opportunity we’ll get to ask how we can be together better. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Patrice Gordon about reverse mentorship, a practice that sets up a junior team member, often a member of an underrepresented group, to mentor senior staff. Patrice did a TED talk last fall on how reverse mentorship can help create better leaders, and I loved the approach. We talk through best practices and how to set up a program that provides psychological safety for individuals and for the organization. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Doug Conant is the only former Fortune 500 CEO who is a New York Times bestselling author, a Top 50 Leadership Innovator, a Top 100 Leadership Speaker, and one of the 100 Most Influential Authors in the World. We talk about the principles and practices in the new book he co-authored with Amy Federman, The Blueprint: 6 Practical Steps to Lift Your Leadership to New Heights, as well as how to create an entourage of excellence, how to find our individual leadership stories, and how to bring those stories to life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael Bungay Stanier is the author of six books, including The Coaching Habit and The Advice Trap. We talk about taming our Advice Monsters — you know, those insatiable things that fuel our need to offer advice and answers when curiosity and good questions are way more powerful. We also share a very vulnerable, impromptu role play, where I ask him for help on a real issue that I’m struggling with at work and he models incredible coaching and curiosity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking to Dr. Angela Duckworth, professor, founder and CEO of Character Lab, and author of Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance. We dig into what grit is, but also what grit is not. We talk about taking the windy path, the danger of oversimplifying complex ideas, and why ruling out what does NOT bring you joy is part of finding what does. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Part 2 of our two-part series on daring leadership, where I unpack four more common types of armor that we use to self-protect when we’re in fear. These barriers include creating a fitting-in culture versus a belonging culture, fostering a scarcity-based culture versus modeling that we are enough and have enough, leading reactively versus leading strategically, and resisting change versus accepting and embracing change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The greatest barrier to daring leadership is not fear; the greatest barrier is armor, or how we self-protect when we’re in fear. This is Part 1 of a two-part series where I unpack the most common types of armor, including being a knower versus being a learner, tapping out of hard conversation versus skilling up and leaning in, and using shame and blame to manage others versus using accountability and empathy. Join me for a conversation that includes real examples and actionable strategies about how we can dare to lead. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode feels like a conversation with an old friend who happens to be an expert on fear, anxiety, and perfectionism. Pippa is a highly sought-after sports psychologist, a culture coach, and the author of the bestselling book Fear Less: How to Win at Life Without Losing Yourself. As the head of people and team development at the Football Association, she worked closely with the England team for the World Cup in 2018 (remember when they finally broke that penalty kick curse?). Join us as we talk about what it means to live with an open heart versus clenched fists. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dare to Lead is Unlocking Us this week. Burnout. We’re all experiencing it and we’re all desperate for a way through it. In this episode, I talk to Drs. Emily and Amelia Nagoski about what causes burnout, what it does to our bodies, and how we can move through the emotional exhaustion. This has been a game changer for me and for my family! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, Dare to Lead is Unlocking Us! Emmanuel Acho is a creator, host, and producer of Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, a web series about racism to drive open and uncomfortable dialogue. His book with the same name is a thoughtful manifesto, a mandate, and a playbook that’s both generous and full of love. We get personal, and we talk about what these important questions mean in the context of history and for culture today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Part 2 of my conversation with Dr. Susan David, author of the bestselling book Emotional Agility: Get Unstuck, Embrace Change, and Thrive in Work and Life. In Part 1, we talked about how emotional granularity and agility benefit us as leaders. This episode is another “emotions researcher extravaganza!” Susan and I talk about how to build emotionally agile teams, how to lead from a place of awareness, and the power of the choice that we can find in the space between stimulus and response. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking to Dr. Susan David, author of the bestselling book Emotional Agility: Get Unstuck, Embrace Change, and Thrive in Work and Life. This is a full-on emotion-researcher geek-out on how emotional granularity and agility benefit us as individuals and as leaders. It’s such a good conversation that we made it into two episodes, and this is Part 1. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You can’t spell podcast without tacos. I’m talking to Veronica and Miguel Garza, the co-founders of Siete Family Foods, a family-owned Mexican American food brand of heritage-inspired products. Their story is one of family, love, tenacity, and how you build a successful company that is fueled by authenticity and servant leadership to make food approved by abuelas everywhere. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s a total geek-out, nerd-fest conversation with my friend Adam Grant about his new book, Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know. Adam weaves together research and storytelling to help us build the intellectual and emotional muscle we need to stay curious enough about the world to actually change it. This is such an important book for the world we live in today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Part 2 of my conversation with Aiko Bethea, friend, colleague, and diversity, equity, and inclusion expert. We take the foundations from our first conversation and build upon them with strategic and sustainable action items that we can take to create nonreactive, intentional, accountable, and transformational change. It’s a master class in the power of integration and the importance of a learning mindset. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is a heartfelt and honest conversation with writer, creator, and former tech entrepreneur Chad Sanders on Black Magic: What Black Leaders Learned from Trauma and Triumph. Chad shares his stories and interviews from 15 leaders across industries on transformative leadership. There are critical teachings here for all of us — in fact, it’s our organization’s first group read of 2021. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join me for Part 2 of a conversation with one of my favorite thinkers and writers, Dr. Sarah Lewis. We’re talking about her book, The Rise: Creativity, the Gift of Failure, and the Search for Mastery. I first talked to Sarah on our November 30 episode about the creative process and the difference between mastery and success, but the conversation was so thought-provoking that we had to record a second episode. This time, we talk about the impact of protecting creative time and the power of surrender. We also talk about aesthetic force and the role of imagery in creating change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Simon Sinek, visionary thinker, speaker, and author of multiple bestselling books, about his latest book, The Infinite Game. We talk about finding our why, the infinite mindset versus the finite mindset, and five essential and actionable practices of infinite thinkers and infinite leaders. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kevin Oakes is the head of the world’s leading HR research firm, the Institute for Corporate Productivity, and we are talking about his new book, Culture Renovation: 18 Leadership Actions to Build an Unshakeable Company. The best playbooks are a combination of reliable research, relatable examples, and actionable strategies. And this is the best playbook I’ve seen when it comes to creating organizational cultures that create competitive advantage, unlock performance, and rehumanize work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is a two-hour, deep-dive conversation with Jim Collins on his work and how it shaped who I am as a person, as a leader, and as a researcher. We talk about our values, our shadow values, the power of curiosity, decades of grounded theory research and comparative analysis, and how he explains 30 years of research with one integrated framework called The Map. Jim’s books, including his new one, Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0, have captured the hearts and minds of his readers and changed how we think about building and leading organizations. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I talk with President Barack Obama about his life, his work, and his new book, A Promised Land. We dive into the power of leaning into uncertainty and why the rare skill of holding the tension of opposites makes us better leaders, partners, and parents. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join me for a conversation with Dr. Sarah Lewis in Part 1 of a two-part series on her book, The Rise: Creativity, the Gift of Failure, and the Search for Mastery. We talk about why the word failure doesn’t quite capture the often-transformative experience of falling and beginning again, the difference between success and mastery, and the power of setting audacious goals that are right outside our grasp. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Eric Mosley is the CEO and co-founder of Workhuman, and we talk about his new book, Making Work Human: How Human-Centered Companies Are Changing the Future of Work and the World. His transformative work is based on 50 million data points and is leading the charge to dismantle old HR processes and challenge organizations to build new ways to connect the modern workforce. This is data with a heart and research with a goal to rehumanize. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I talk with Guy Raz, the creator and host of the popular podcasts How I Built This, Wisdom From the Top, and The Rewind. Guy and I dig into the importance of an entrepreneurial mindset, what gets in the way of innovation, and the transformative power of story. I think his new book, How I Built This: The Unexpected Paths to Success from the World’s Most Inspiring Entrepreneurs, should be mandatory reading in business schools — it’s an incredible playbook! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Aiko Bethea is a friend, colleague, and diversity, equity, and inclusion expert. We discuss empathy, accountability, and the power of listening and believing (including a very real role play). We also dissect the differences between transactional leadership and transformational leadership and why courage is a prerequisite to lasting, meaningful change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with Pulitzer Prize–winning historian Jon Meacham about what history can teach us about leading through crises and deep political divides. We discuss the importance of humility and candor and how our history reflects the ongoing fight between our better angels and our worst instincts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Olympian, activist, and author Abby Wambach and I connect on the new rules of leadership. Her book, WOLFPACK, I kid you not, is on my top five must-read leadership books. I buy this book for everyone. It’s leadership gold. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this first solo episode of the Dare to Lead podcast, I talk about my passion for this work, what we’re learning about courageous leadership and skill-building, and the differences between armored and daring leadership. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brené’s newest podcast is based on her book, Dare to Lead, which debuted at #1 on the New York Times, and Wall Street Journal bestseller lists, and has become the ultimate courage-building playbook for leaders at every level. Brené writes, “The Dare to Lead podcast will be a mix of solo episodes and conversations with change-catalysts, culture-shifters, and as many troublemakers as possible. Innovating, creating, and building a better, more just world, requires daring leadership in every part of our daily lives – from work to home to community. Together, we’ll have conversations that help us show up, step up, and dare to lead.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices